RC: RoKD: Messiah ben Joseph & David

Messiah ben Joseph & ben David
When two mashiachs are spoken about in terms of the messianic age it is machiach ben yosaf (the mashiach son of Joseph) and mashiach ben David (the mashiach son of David) The role of mashiach ben Yosef is merely to prepare the way for mashiach ben David. There is very little written on this- but what is clear is that mashiach ben Yosef preceeds Mashiach ben David by weeks at most- a herald to announce the coming of the mashiach that actually does things.Some opinions state that Mashiach ben Yosef is the leader in the battle of Gog and Magog, others reject this- what is clear is that it is two different individuals as one person cannot belong to two tribes (David was from Yehudah- Yosef is represented by his two sons in the tribes, Ephraim and Menasseh). As such- this concept is completely different to the Christian concept ot the second coming of the mashiach.edit: What you need to understand is that Judaism does not say there HAS to be the war between Gog ad Magog (what you refer to as Armageddon- except in the Jewish version there is no Satan, anti-Christ, horseman or in fact most of what is said in the New Testament in rvelations...). The coming of Mashiach can be a number of ways depending on the condition of the world at the time and the spiritual state of the Jews at the time. It is stated that if all Jews were to observe two consecutive Shabbos' the Mashiach would be instantly revealed and the messianic age started immediately. In that scenario the mashiach ben Yosef would NOT appear at all. Another intermediate scenario is if we are bein yonim (at an intermediate spiritual level- the exact definition of this is actually debated so I'm not going to elaborate on it)- in that scenario the appearnce of Mashiach is more gradual and i mashiach ben Yosef may make an appearance as a politician or other similar figure- essentially a pre-cursor that elevates the world so we are heavier on the "good" side. The worst case scenario is when we spiritually decrepit, unworthy and Mashiach is basically being sent to save us from ourselves (kinda along the lines of why God used the years of suffering of Avraham and Sarah (they are considered to have suffered 190 years waiting for the birth of Isaac- thus the 100 years of Age of Avraham at the time plus the Sarah's 90 years) to count against the years spent in Egypt so he could redeem the Jews earlier). IN that scenario you have the war of Gog and Magog and mashiach ben Yosef is a general/war chief whatever and is most likely the first person to be resurrected when all the dead are brought back to life. However, just to emphasise the point- the two are very close together in time if not continguous and overlapping and Mashiach ben Yosef does not do any of the tasks set aside for Mashiach ben David.
allonyoav from Yahoo. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AnlexcG_G.Yvt0eE7zoKBh_ty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20080304131103AAabeMi
Ok..here quoted from a very respected Jewish Rabbi and scholar, Rabbi Immanuel Schochet, Professor of Philosophy at Humber College, Toronto, Canada and Rabbi of Kielcer Congregation, author of more than twenty books ..The term Mashiach unqualified always refers to Mashiach ben David ( Mashiach the descendent of David) of the tribe of Judah. He is the actual redeemer who shall rule in the Messianic age. Al that was said in our text ( My insertion here, this comes from a book about the Messianic Age) relates to him.Mashiach ben Yossef ( Mashiach the descendent of Joseph) of the tribe of Ephraim ( son of Joseph) is also referred to as Mashiach ben Ephrayim, Masiach the descendent of Epharim. He will come first, before the final redeemer… ( the Rabbi’s who discuss this speak of them living in the same generation)Now I’ll skip ahead..The principal and final function of Masiach ben Yossefis of political and military nature. He shall wage war against the forces of evil that oppress Israel.Again I’ll skip ahead …I’ll give a link to an online version of this narrative at the end for you to read in FULL.Quite significantly, R Saadiah Gaon ( one of the few to elaborate on the role of Mashiach ben Yossef) notes that this sequence is not definite but *contingent* Masiach ben Yossef will NOT have to appear before Masiach ben David, nor will the activities attributed to him or his death have to occur. All depends on the spiritual condition of the Jewish people at the time the redemption is to take place. ( Meaning he may or may not die before the Davidic Messiah does his job)It goes on ..but the point is clear that the death and suffering of the Messiah of Josephs’s line will live just before the time of the Davidic messiah.. OR he may also LIVE to serve as his “viceroy”. The important things to remember about this whole Rabbinic concept and discussion is that Mosiach ben Yossef’s role is very clearly and specifically the military leader and he is not of the Davidic line at all in any rabbinic thinking. He also has a completely different TRIBE than the Davidic Messiah.http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/http://www.messiahtruth.org/ are two good places to learn more about the Davidic Messiah.."THE Messiah" in Jewish thinking from a scriptural point of view.
EDIT: Because the Christian concept of Messiah is very different than the Jewish concept, they usually don't understand or recognize why people of the Jewish faith discount their prophecy that Jews will worship an " antichrist". Worship of a dead Jew or ANY JEW is not a Torah observant thing to do. When the Davidic Messiah ushers in the "messianic age" Jews will not look to him to pardon sin NOR will we pray to or through him. That would violate important commandments from God to the covenant people Israel. It just is not going to happen. The Messiah is not God. The Messiah works FOR God.EDIT #2 I forgot to include that if the Mosiach ben Yossef is killed, the Davidic Messiah, living at that time..is to see that the Mosiach ben Yossef is the first to be resurrected according to the Rabbinic discussion.
The blood on the doorpost in Egypt represented the life force of the false Egyptian deities and sacrifice of their deities( of whom the Pharaoh was a man/god of the ram deity) in the presence of the Egyptians with no recourse done to the Israelites who did this and even ate the false god in their presence in defiance. Israel was PASSED OVER by the angel of death because this act of defiance showed that the bonds of idolatry and superstition were broken and they indeed accepted the God of Israel as their only God.
mama_pajama_1 from Yahoo Answers http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AnlexcG_G.Yvt0eE7zoKBh_ty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20080304131103AAabeMi
Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies:* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)* The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)* Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)* Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)
From Mark S on yahoo answers. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AoYosCJ6buABrspzDvTi_Gzty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20080304095154AAB5xrG